Wednesday, May 2, 2018

Red Post Collection: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 2nd, PBE Marksman/AD Changes Context, & More

Today's red post collection includes Meddler's quick gameplay thoughts for May 2nd, context and changelist threads from Riot Axes on Marksman/AD items in the 8.10 PBE cycle, a changelist thread for jungle changes on the PBE from Riot Sotere, and more!
Continue reading for more information!



Table of Contents


Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 2 

Here's Meddler's quick gameplay thoughts for May 2nd, including thoughts on midseason changes, a post on supports soon, Varus' W, and more:

"Hey all, 
Usual Disclaimers 
These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler 
Midseason changes still being worked on 
As you've likely seen in other threads in the Devcorner and PBE Boards we've got a number of changes in for midseason. Those are still being worked on, whether it's polish on AD items that will be in 8.11, ongoing exploration and tuning of jungle changes (probably in 8.10) or follow up to mage and AP item mana changes from 8.9. Continued feedback on those much appreciated, whether from direct experiences with the changes in game or analysis of them after they're posted. While we won't be able to act on every piece of feedback, especially when different players are looking for very different things, it is extremely valuable, letting us catch or improve a range of things. 
Thoughts on supports soon 
We've talked about a lot of other classes and positions recently, we haven't talked much about supports and problems there for a bit. Some thoughts on that shortly (Friday or mid next week). Short version is there are some issues we want to look at once midseason's stabilized, including how reliably defensive power is from enchanters and whether the current power from the heal/shield stat's too high and/or undercosted. Long version soon. 
Varus W empowered Q sounds 
We've been seeing some feedback recently that it's too hard to tell when Varus is charging a W empowered Q, versus just a normal Q, making it hard to play around that more dangerous cast. Turns out one of the reasons for that is that the main audio cue on the empowered Q charge (a spinning powering up sound) wasn't playing most of the time. That should be fixed in 8.9, let us know if it's still really hard to tell if it's a normal or empowered Q after that. 
Surrender Rules 
Sometime soon (probably starting this week) we'll be testing a change to the early surrender rules that removes the unanimous vote requirement and instead goes with the normal 4 of 5 yes votes. That change will initially be only on the Oceanic server, if it tests well there we'll then roll it out to other regions as well. 
We originally went with a unanimous requirement for early surrenders to ensure players weren't having games that looked winnable still surrendered out from under them that early. Looking at early surrender's use however games that fail a surrender 4-1 between 15-20 very often end up with a surrender or defeat around 20 minutes instead. That means the unanimous requirement is mainly just dragging out already lost games."

When asked about the changes for Infinity Edge testing on the PBE, Meddler commented:
"Quote:
Could some context be given on why IE has Yasuo's double crit passive? 
What do you think will be the main rush items post marksmen changes? I think StormRazor ER BT or BotRK will what an adc rushes depending on the champ 
How does StormRazor's Auto Crit work with MF's Q because the first hit cannot crit 
Lastly thoughts on Ashe since her crit system is much different to other adcs
We wanted to make it so IE was a late game item, not something you rushed early. Early IE gives really high potential crit, gets multipliers on damage going too fast and leads to increased access to crit in lane. Shifting it to a later item and pushing some of its power towards being better at killing tanky targets more helps with those issues. We chose double crit because it's both a pretty strong limiter (no way you're rushing this as a first item and few champs can go Zeal item first) and one that's pretty easy to understand (oh, I need some crit for this to do anything, I'll get it later). 
I think you'll generally be right about StormRazor, ER and BotRK as common rush items. Less confident we'll see early BT still. Would also still expect some of the existing less common starts to still exist too. Things like Triforce, Rageblade, Lethality etc on specific champs. 
Not certain on the MF Q interaction with StormRazor, let me get back to you on that one.
Think it's likely we'll need to do some tuning on Ashe after these changes, though I think current thinking is what and see where she lands, rather than trying to pre-emptively change things. Is there a particular interaction or item you're thinking with regards to Ashe?"

Meddler continued:
"MF Q - can't crit on the first Q overrides the guaranteed crit on StormRazor. The StormRazor buff is then removed since subsequent hits, whether Q2 or regular AAs, are no longer the first AA."

As for the effects of the Infinity Edge changes on champion abilities and passives, Meddler commented:
"Quote:
What're you planning on doing about all the abilities/passives that got increased damage from IE crits, but aren't affected by IE's new passive? MF's Double Up comes to mind. 
You say IE isn't something you rush early, but BF>zeal is normal now and looks like it could be pretty normal after this, too. I assume you're hoping the deathcap-style buildpath will discourage BF>zeal>finish IE? 
Are you going to make sure stormrazor doesn't interact with shiv to guarantee shiv rolling a crit?
Some individual champs will likely need balancing around these item changes. Having said that some benefit a lot in other regards. Jhin's extremely effective with StormRazor for example, so much more suspicious he'll be too strong than worried he'll be too weak. 
Expectation is IE will generally be a good choice as third item, rather than following on from a Zeal or Zeal item. Having said that we're still tuning numbers so I wouldn't swear that its current stats and gold cost necessarily put it there right now or not. Deathcap's a pretty good comparison, though potentially kicking in a bit earlier and more commonly than DC has tended to in recent years. 
StormRazor should cause Shiv to crit. If that's a problem we'll then balance it, we've already taken a chunk of power out of Shiv recently though."

As for the previously mentioned possible VO update, Meddler replied:
"Quote:
Hey meddler can I ask for a status update on the mini updates your mentioned you guys were going to do a while back, particularly the VO one
We ended up iceboxing that VO update for now. We'll get back to it at some point, what we discovered after recording new VO was that opinion on the champ in question, both from Rioters and other players, varied enormously. Some existing players of the champ loved it, some hated it. After digging into that we concluded the issue was we hadn't clearly enough defined what personality aspects were important to preserve, so were delivering on some people's idea of the champ and contradicting others pretty hard. We weren't trying to make a personality shift, so concluded we needed to take another pass at some point instead of going with that VO."

On supports, Meddler commented:
"Quote:
So support changes are going through, eh?
Hopefully we won’t get nerfed into the ground too badly, though my main concern is early game and how effective shields and peel will be when a game is fresh and we don’t have a solid build yet.
There are some support related issues we want to look at and talk about. Nothing concrete yet though and assuming we do make changes they'll be after we've done some midseason followup/balancing."

As for how Varus is doing after his W change went to live, Meddler noted:
"Quote:
While we're on the topic of Varus, are there any thoughts on Varus's current state since the W changes?
Potentially a bit on the weak side, accompanying W and passive nerfs took a bit more power out than we'd intended. Having said that we've got a lot of marksmen impacting stuff arriving soon so I think it's likely we reassess after that, see if he needs changes at that point or not."

On Last Whisper, Meddler commented:
"Quote:
So will Last Whisper be a must buy 3rd item again like before?
We're looking to avoid that, in particular with a higher price point on it relative to where it used to be, so it's not so mandatory early on so many champs. Having said that it's likely some degree of must buy for it does creep back, particularly on champs that synergize really well with it. That's a price we concluded was worth paying though for the other benefits shifting back to total pen gives (in particular more appropriate scaling for many champs who don't have to be early game or bust to the same degree)."

He continued:
"Quote:
How is it a bad thing if almost every ad builds Last Whisper
Its not like mages arent building Void Staff everygame
I'd argue it removes choice and variety from the item system, leading to a less interesting game. Void Staff does that too. In neither case is that a critical issue, but it's a cost we pay if we have those items exist as very general multipliers on your damage like this."

On Karma, Meddler replied:
"Quote:
Will karma be in this discussion or is she more on the mage side of things?
Going to be talking general issues (e.g. state of shielding/healing overall and problems from that) rather than changes planned for specific champs."

On Tryndamere and Yasuo, Meddler replied:
"Quote:
What do you think about Tryndamere and Yasuo regarding ADC items revamp ? 
They aren't the target of those changes, will they receive compensation buff ?
They might receive compensation buffs, or compensation nerfs, depending on where these changes put them. Either would likely be after we see where these changes land."

When asked about the fighter/bruiser item mentioned in a previous QGT post, Meddler noted:
"Quote:
Is the fighter/bruiser item still going to happen? Or is it the new Stormrazor? thing?
Might still have a new fighter item later (8.12 or beyond). Still testing, so nothing guaranteed yet."

As for the new keystone, Meddler commented:
"Quote:
Will the new keystone Hail of Blades be going onto the PBE this cycle? Haven’t seen anything on it yet.
Might be this cycle, might be the next one. Aiming to have it in patch 8.11 regardless though."


When asked about the new Stormrazor item critting towers, Meddler noted:
"Quote:
Is the crit on towers with stormrazor intended or just a bug because i can crit the towers several times with jhin besides the 4th shot when i have stormrazor
Critting towers is a bug, should be fixed in an upcoming PBE build."

When asked about icons for the changed items, Meddler commented:
"Quote:
speaking of Icons will any of the marksmen Items be getting a new look?
Mainly IE cause I feel it might be somewhat starting to show its age
Yeah, I think we've got an updated IE one at least. Not aware of any changing beyond that right now."

Marksman changes coming to PBE in the next couple days 

Here's Riot Axes with a context post on Marksman changes that are now testing on the PBE:
"Hi folks, 
We’re going to be putting a bunch of marksman stat and item changes on the PBE over the next couple days - wante

from
http://www.surrenderat20.net/2018/05/red-post-collection-quick-gameplay.html
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